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martino
08-26-2005, 01:23 PM
Still looking for a great dealio on a used 749/749S and in the meantime I am researching the cooler arse exhaust options and am super trooper confused. It looks like the main source of the heat is the cat converters located in either mufflers and/or pipes. Getting rid of them would be the goal of the operation but at what cost?
There seem to be many options:

full exhausts
1/2 system
2-1-2
asymetrical
50 mm
54 mm
if termi then with or w/o ECU
PCIII is available with custom maps
ducatipipemod guy can do the job too (he has many options and his dyno graps indicate both gain in hp at higher rpm as well as significant decrease in hp at lower rpm)
there is even a two muffler set (Remus, I think) but while it looks awesome on 748 I am not too excited about it for 749
What is your recommnendation for the best bang for the $?
Thx

ngng
08-26-2005, 01:34 PM
Still looking for a great dealio on a used 749/749S and in the meantime I am researching the cooler arse exhaust options and am super trooper confused. It looks like the main source of the heat is the cat converters located in either mufflers and/or pipes. Getting rid of them would be the goal of the operation but at what cost?
There seem to be many options:

full exhausts
1/2 system
2-1-2
asymetrical
50 mm
54 mm
if termi then with or w/o ECU
PCIII is available with custom maps
ducatipipemod guy can do the job too (he has many options and his dyno graps indicate both gain in hp at higher rpm as well as significant decrease in hp at lower rpm)
there is even a two muffler set (Remus, I think) but while it looks awesome on 748 I am not too excited about it for 749
What is your recommnendation for the best bang for the $?
Thx

DJS ran a termi w/o an ECU while he was waiting for it...and it ran like s**t

if i were you, i'd take whatever exhaust you get and take it to performance coatings...you can put your hand over the pipes and you can't feel it :o

martino
08-26-2005, 01:43 PM
DJS ran a termi w/o an ECU while he was waiting for it...and it ran like shit Perhaps DJS can drop his 2 cents about the ride perf after the ECU was installed. I would appreciate.


if i were you, i'd take whatever exhaust you get and take it to performance coatings...you can put your hand over the pipes and you can't feel it :o I like this much better than having some Home Depot insulation wrapped around these pipes. Thx

DJS
08-26-2005, 02:00 PM
The Termi for my 749S was taking forever so I cancelled the order. But have been told by Ducati Seattle the new ECU and full system would smooth things out and help with the heat issue. I have toyed with the idea of coating my exhaust from Per Coating but never get around to it. Honestly, the bike get really hot and the radiant heat is bothersome but for me it's something I can live with. I would much rather have a 520 conversion and a 41T in the rear. This to me is a better upgrade and less money then the $2+k for a full system. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but termi now only makes a full system for the '05's?

UKDuc
08-26-2005, 02:16 PM
If it is just heat you want to get rid of - and it is priority number 1 for the 749s in my opinion - the cheapest and most efficient option would be to get Strati to take the catalysts out of your pipe and then get it ceramic coated inside and out. Exhaust wrap doesn't really work.

I don't think you should really worry about performance from the pipe mod (increasing performance) - there are other mods that will pay better dividends than pipe mods. The pipe mod will make it sound much better and be a lot easier to ride in anything but freezing temperatures

kamran
08-26-2005, 02:32 PM
As mentioned, if hot seat is the problem, you might consider insulating the underside of your seat. You can get self adhesive insulating material with aluminum foil that does the job. You can get 4" wide strips for pipe insulation that works pretty well from Home Depot ($4) or the self adhesive foil insulation that is used for inside of the fairing. You can order those for $25.

I've used both on my MV and they seem to be working just fine...

martino
08-26-2005, 02:35 PM
Good recommendations.

Strato charges some $600 for 749 mods - not super inexpensive either but less than used e-bay Termis at $850 (have heard that ECU cannot be re-programmed for another bike anyhow :confused:). Perf improvement is not much of the concern but the shift of the power curve with the PCIII map (http://www.ducatipipemod.com/service/dyno/749dyno-big2.jpg) is. Perhaps I should not spend the $ for PCIII and forget about re-mapping. In that case, will the bike handle OK with the muffler/header mods?
Coating would be in the picture as well as 41T rear s. Why 520?

DJS
08-26-2005, 03:57 PM
Don't do the 520 conversion. I just heard from a very reliable source it would be a mistake! I will not be doing it because of this new info. Thanks.

flyingducman
08-26-2005, 05:47 PM
...as well as 41T rear s. Why 520?I've got a 03 749.

I had ducati Seattle install the Termi "1/2" system and did a "520" conversion at the same time (DID 520 ERV2 chain/AFAM 41 tooth rear/AFAM 14 tooth front). On the way home after leaving the shop, and accelerating as I normaly would, the front tire came off the ground unexpectedly, when previously (under the same acceleration) it didn't. It was a surprise...but a pleasant one :evilgrin3 .

The 520 conversion is simply installing front and rear sprockets compatable with the 520 chain-size. Then installing the lighter, not-as-wide 520 chain. There is a bit less friction with the thinner chain-size as well. I don't know what argument there could be against this time-tested minor modification?

The pipe produced a noticeable performance increase and it's sound will let everybody know you're coming...or just flew (flyingducman :p ) past :evilgrin3 !

I've had no problems with either the pipe or the chain. The 520 chain that I installed DID 520ERV2 has a strength well in-excess of what my 749 can do to it.

CINDESMO
08-26-2005, 08:33 PM
Changing to the 41 tooth sprocket will make the front come up. The difference in the chain is only 13oz! Hard to believe that small amount of weight difference would be noticed by the average rider. It seems pretty negligible.

flyingducman
08-26-2005, 09:16 PM
Changing to the 41 tooth sprocket will make the front come up.Remember, I did the 41 tooth, PLUS the pipe all at the same time. It went into the shop one-way...and came out with both modifications. So, one, or both, the two mods produced the unexpected surprise :happy44: of a front-end lift-off :D .
The difference in the chain is only 13oz! Hard to believe that small amount of weight difference would be noticed by the average rider. It seems pretty negligible.For me I can't attribute what percentage of my performance increase was sprocket/chain-related. The lighter, smaller chain went on with the larger rear sprocket, and the pipe.

I've read an aweful lot about reducing moving "mass", and the sizeable effect that it can have on overall performance. Lightweight flywheels, clutch-baskets and even lightweight wheels (carbon fiber/magnesium) are well-known to improve performance. I would imagine an engineer or scientist could adresss what effect 13 less ounces spinning around two sprockets would have. I would imagine it would be a positive effect, but yes, probably minimal.

Really makes you wonder why people spend so much on carbon fiber...only to reduce the weight of certain parts by ounces :rolleyes: , a few pounds at best. I'd be better off spending the $$ on a gym membership and loosing 20 or more pounds off myself :scared10: !

martino
08-26-2005, 10:40 PM
I've read an aweful lot about reducing moving "mass", and the sizeable effect that it can have on overall performance.In this case a 54 mm full Termi might be the answer to some of us. It is supposed to drop some 14 lb over the stock. Still, it will be ~ $150 per dropped lb. (bankers would recalculate it per day and the $ amount would seem much smaller :happy57:). It still is $2K+ for a slightly used one.
Intensive 2 months at the gym (for less than $100) can drop that much from the rider - it might be a better choice; and then you might look like your hip-hop stylish son with those hanging loose clothes :eek:.

P.S. Am I understanding correctly that a 1/2 system is just a muffler while a full system is muffler + header (which carries the cat coverters)?

flyingducman
08-26-2005, 10:59 PM
P.S. Am I understanding correctly that a 1/2 system is just a muffler while a full system is muffler + header (which carries the cat coverters)?They call it a "1/2" system, but it's actually more like "3/4's" :rolleyes: .

It is the under-the-seat canister AND one header-pipe that removes the remaining catalytic converter. One "cat" is in the canister under the seat (for the rear cylinder I believe), and the other "cat" is in the pipe off the front cylinder.

So, effectively, you' ve actually got a "full" system since both "cats" are gone.

I think in a true "full" system the piping is of a larger diameter. It's amazing what a second piece of pipe, and a slighly larger diameter to the pipe adds to the cost :scared10: .

martino
08-26-2005, 11:50 PM
Grazie tante!



They call it a "1/2" system, but it's actually more like "3/4's" :rolleyes: .

It is the under-the-seat canister AND one header-pipe that removes the remaining catalytic converter. One "cat" is in the canister under the seat (for the rear cylinder I believe), and the other "cat" is in the pipe off the front cylinder.

So, effectively, you' ve actually got a "full" system since both "cats" are gone.

I think in a true "full" system the piping is of a larger diameter. It's amazing what a second piece of pipe, and a slighly larger diameter to the pipe adds to the cost :scared10: .

martino
08-27-2005, 12:46 AM
I think I finally have gotten the scoop on it:


the 1/2 system is called also 'asymetrical' or just plain 'slip-ons' - it replaces the silencer (still with steel :happy57:) and a horizontal head exhaust pipe. Both pieces come cat converter free.
the full system is a called also 'complete' - it replaces the entire exhaust system which includes the 1/2 system + vertical head exhaust pipe + some fittings and other stuff all kind of welded togehter ;). The main difference is that the silencer is now titanium and a piping assembly is 2-1-2 or cross-over (supposedly this helps balance the pressure differences in the cans and is good) rather than stock or 1/2 system 2-2. This one also comes with different pipe diameters (not sure about the diameter of pipes in 1/2 system). It has ben reported that this ones shaves some 14lb from the stock.
The difference is therefore not only in one additional pipe but actually a different pipe assembly. Is it worth additional $1K? Maybe yes maybe not.

CINDESMO
08-27-2005, 09:55 AM
Carbon fiber is lighter but to utilize it properly you need to replace many items. Just putting a c/f sprocket cover on your bike isn't going to make a difference. Since my bike came with a few c/f components for me it made sense to replace more pieces with c/f. Of course, I mostly did it because it made me happy. I can't say that I noticed a performance difference - just grin factor. On the other hand, lighter wheels make a ridiculously huge difference!

I always use the restroom before riding. Bwah ha ha. :evilgrin3

martino
09-27-2005, 07:18 PM
DJS, can you share the info about not doing it? As Cindesmo mentioned few oz will not make a difference but considering that I might also need to get a new chain to compliment a 41T rear I want to compare prices of:
520: 14T front + 41T rear + chain
525: 41T rear + chain

Unless I might be able to use existing chain with the new 41T rear; I need to check how much space thgere still ease on the swingarm axle 'slider'



Don't do the 520 conversion. I just heard from a very reliable source it would be a mistake! I will not be doing it because of this new info. Thanks.

martino
10-01-2005, 10:56 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but termi now only makes a full system for the '05's?
BTW, the first Termis for 05 749 bikes were delivered last week (per Speedzilla (http://speedzilla.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10205)). People like them but are not sound impressed.

I decided to do the Strati's DucatiPipeMod and if heat still is an issue I'll consider pipe coating.

UKDuc
10-01-2005, 10:59 AM
BTW, the first Termis for 05 749 bikes were delivered last week (per Speedzilla (http://speedzilla.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10205)). People like them but are not sound impressed.

I decided to do the Strati's DucatiPipeMod and if heat still is an issue I'll consider pipe coating.

And the guy who bought my bike was the one who got it!!! :D

martino
10-01-2005, 12:10 PM
What a small world!




And the guy who bought my bike was the one who got it!!! :D