View Full Version : DNW Track Bike
In all seriousness what is the feasability of the club purchasing a dedicated track bike for use by paid doc members?
Rental fees could be set up to cover the costs of maintenance and tires. Of course any damage is paid for by the rider.
So what say the board members? This would really set our club apart from others:)
Torben
12-07-2006, 10:59 AM
You already have a track bike don't ya? :p
We have thought about it and it certainly would be a good benefit for those paid members. There are a great deal of legal and logistic issues to consider and I don't know we could adequately recover from those issues. I'd be happy to provide a list of issues but at this point don't want to rathole.
I like the idea, don't get me wrong. The overarching issues are significant and don't have simple resolutions.
What say the rest of ye folks? Is this a good use of club funds?
kamran
12-07-2006, 11:27 AM
I suppose one can come up with all the legal releases that the big boy schools come up with. But the main issue remains and thus the liability that goes along with it is the bike maintenance. Unless the bike is regularly maintained by a professional technician after every individual track day to fix raising issues and mechanicals upkeeps, no legal release documentations will get you off the liabilities. (e.g. a worn chain breaks, or a loose fuel filter comes off, spilling oil on the rear tire, causing the rider going down)
If we can all live in a society where law suits aren't something waiting to happen, it'd be a fantastic idea. I get dibs to be first in line...;)
foggy123
12-07-2006, 11:31 AM
You already have a track bike don't ya? :p
We have thought about it and it certainly would be a good benefit for those paid members. There are a great deal of legal and logistic issues to consider and I don't know we could adequately recover from those issues. I'd be happy to provide a list of issues but at this point don't want to rathole.
I like the idea, don't get me wrong. The overarching issues are significant and don't have simple resolutions.
What say the rest of ye folks? Is this a good use of club funds?
How much does the club have to play with?
.
Jeremy
12-07-2006, 11:53 AM
I think it would be cool and I would definitely participate. However, I also agree with Kamran that it would have to be maintained after every trackday...at least a once over to make sure it's OK...that could be expensive. Whoever used it for a trackday could possibly chip in to pay for the once over, and any damage from a crash would be paid for by the crasher. But who would pay for routine maintenance and things such as tires?
I'm not sure how much money the club has, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't enough to buy a Ducati trackbike...say a 748. Sure, we could get a non-Duc trackbike cheaper, but what kind of Duc club would have a Jap trackbike?
Overall a cool idea that I would love to take part in, but I'm not sure the club has enough money. :confused:
Bones
12-07-2006, 11:54 AM
WOW. Now THAT would be really cool to see. Just a DNW decked out bike in the pits during track days would be cool, but to make it available to members would be just so over-the-top awesome.
Torben
12-07-2006, 12:00 PM
Even if we did have the funds to buy one (which at this point it's unlikely), aside of the legal issues that are in fact very real, the cost of maintenance wouldn't be included in the original cost, and this is a recurring cost (both regular maintenance and wear & tear such as tires etc). There is also the issue that has been made very clear that the majority of people in this community don't care about track related events or even going on the track. Of the 100+ paid members we have, maybe 20 would use it. The other 80 would see their funds going to fund the 20 who would make use of it. In that sense it's not a fair use of club funds.
You guys know how much it costs to do this on a regular basis; it's not a cheap sport by any means if you go to the track on a consistent basis.
I'm always willing to listen to creative ideas, so fire away
flyingducman
12-07-2006, 12:35 PM
Let's put this on the DOC's 'Wish List' and mail it to Santa.
Then let's see if it's under-the-tree Christmas morning :rolleyes: !
You beleive in Santa Claus...don't you :happy57: .
kamran
12-07-2006, 01:02 PM
Aside from the issue I brought up, the rental fee could be adjusted accordingly to pay for fresh set of tires every two track days (regardless of how much rubber is left) to minimize the liablity issue...also I don't mind sloppy seconds...but not third or fourth!!!LOL:D It may become a desirability issue as far as signing up if you know you'll be getting the last of the rubber on tires, if any by then???
It'd also require involvement of a local dealer (an unattached third party) to look the bike over before release. The unattached third party will also make the determination as to what crashed parts need changing and will do the repair...not some newbee in his garage. All these costs could be part of the rental fee, just as the big boys charge a couple of extra grands to loan you their new bike (or current model at the very least) with fresh new rires when you sign up.
I think with all the added costs, a figure such as $500 +/- is realistic. Are people prepared to pay something like that?
Here are some of my thoughts:
1. Higher annual dues for those wanting to participate in the track bike rental, maybe $100?
2. $300/day to rent the bike for track use. This should cover the costs of tires and maintenance. Hopefully a dealer will help with a club discount for the maintenance of the club track bike.
3. Signed waiver releasing the club/persons from any liability.
4. Renter agrees to pay for any damage inflicted to the bike.
5. No racing with the club bike, strictly used for track days only.
6. If there is enough interest maybe getting a new track bike each year. Proceeds can come from selling the track bike, along with maybe a discount from a participating dealer?
These are some quick thoughts, maybe this can be a topic for the next club meeting?
Dave R
12-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Why not keep it simple and find a used SS900 or 1000 ?? basic mods, lots of crash protection bits (frame sliders, axle bobins etc).. Then ask all the DNW sponsors if they want to have their logo on the bike.... limit the DNW participants to say 10-15, any more that that and it gets too complicated plus there are only so many track days... just some random thoughts
Rick Rinaldo
12-07-2006, 03:59 PM
Here are some of my thoughts:
...
5. No racing with the club bike, strictly used for track days only.
...
Darn! I had visions of the club getting a 1098s tricolor that I was gonna volunteer to race!
sport1000
12-07-2006, 07:05 PM
How many releases would I have to sign? Sign me up!:happy44:
ducmons
12-07-2006, 10:26 PM
Don't forget to think about transportation to and from the track, and also a place to store, work and upkeep the bike year round. Also find a way to track club tools, ramp, straps, fuel, and misc things that will inevitably surface as a needed requirement for the track. Insurance would probably be required to make sure that if the bike was wrecked there would be a way to get it repaired. Chances are if someone is renting a track bike, it's because they don't want to wreck their own bike, for some that have track experience, I guess it may an issue of not wanting to track a bike, but if you're not planning to wreck, why would tracking a bike affect the value or performance of a bike? I'm just wondering.
If we could make it work, I'd be down for that. I'm wanting to do track days this coming year, and actually ride instead of sitting on the sidelines. :happy57: Personally I think its a great idea, but one that will require substantial mula $$$, planning, cooperation, dedication and follow thru from EVERYONE that wants it to happen. Keep talking and keep giving suggestions.
What would happen if the club somehow was able to purchase a bike, and then x amount of members stepped up to cover the expenses and get the program going and then next year less members than the minimum required didn't step up, then the club would be stuck with the bills, and as it was said before, not fair to have other members paying for something that doesn't benefit everyone. I'm not trying to be negative, just throwing things out as food for thought.
Edited to fix typos: :)
Very good points made, JD.
In all of this talk I don't think I have made my point clear - my main objective here is to recruit more DNW members out on the track. The common response I get from non-track riders is they don't want to mess up their ducs. Having a dedicated DNW track bike can help alleviate those fears, then once they experience how fun it is they'll start taking their pride-n-joy to more trackdays.
There could also be a requirement for newbies to take some sort of formal training their first time out - like Fasttrack or Nesba or Mike Sullivan provides.
I know there are a lot of issues and details to iron out but we could really make an impact on recruiting more Duc owners/buyers by providing a means for really experiencing what Ducati's are all about. They are race bred machines and can't truely be appreciated until used in a controlled environment. Can you imagine the kind of publicity we would get on the DOC forum back in Italy!
ducmons
12-08-2006, 10:42 AM
Very good points made, JD.
In all of this talk I don't think I have made my point clear - my main objective here is to recruit more DNW members out on the track. The common response I get from non-track riders is they don't want to mess up their ducs. Having a dedicated DNW track bike can help alleviate those fears, then once they experience how fun it is they'll start taking their pride-n-joy to more trackdays.
There could also be a requirement for newbies to take some sort of formal training their first time out - like Fasttrack or Nesba or Mike Sullivan provides.
I know there are a lot of issues and details to iron out but we could really make an impact on recruiting more Duc owners/buyers by providing a means for really experiencing what Ducati's are all about. They are race bred machines and can't truely be appreciated until used in a controlled environment. Can you imagine the kind of publicity we would get on the DOC forum back in Italy!
What if we build one? Between all of us, we probably have enough parts to build a bike.
Dave R
12-08-2006, 11:16 AM
We have a secure service cage for rent in our warehouse, includes hydraulic lift, air compressor, big benches and storage ! We would work a special price for DNW..
We also have lots of lightly crashed and take off parts we would contribute to this sort of a venture..
What if we build one? Between all of us, we probably have enough parts to build a bike.
If we go with the 9*6 series bike I can contribute fairings, marchesini mags, corse 3 piece airbox, brake mc, foot pegs, windscreen and other small misc bits and pieces. I can also contribute the use of tools, workbench and air compressor in my garage. I don't have room in my garage though so it will have to be stored in someone elses garage, or maybe a sponsoring dealer:rolleyes:
ducmons
12-08-2006, 11:29 AM
If we go with the 9*6 series bike I can contribute fairings, marchesini mags, corse 3 piece airbox, brake mc, foot pegs, windscreen and other small misc bits and pieces. I can also contribute the use of tools, workbench and air compressor in my garage. I don't have room in my garage though so it will have to be stored in someone elses garage, or maybe a sponsoring dealer:rolleyes:
WOW Bong, that is very generous. Thank you to Dave R as well for participating in this discussion and also offering suggestions. It's great to see what all we could pool together and see if it's feasable to build a bike. I don't have the knowledge of all the parts that would be needed. Maybe someone with the knowhow can make a list and folks can go adding to the list if they have a part they can contribute (give freely) to the cause.
I recently sold all my track parts stuff so I don't have squat. I think I have an extra set of Desmo Northwest stickers I could help out with. :p
Torben
12-08-2006, 11:36 AM
don't you have a 9x6 motor kicking around? :p
kamran
12-08-2006, 11:39 AM
I'm thinking with DucSea willing to help out here, may be a new 06 model at DNA promotional discount (to promot Ducati riding and life style, blahh, blahh...) that would have a two year warranty. This bike would then be traded in for a new year old model every two year to take advantage of the warranty. This promotion would have to be worked out so that tracking the bike wouldn't void out the warranty. DNA may be willing to sell us a bike without all the street parts to keep costs down...?
ducmons
12-08-2006, 11:47 AM
don't you have a 9x6 motor kicking around? :p
i used to have 748s engine that I was going to use on a go-cart but then i came across more parts to build a track bike, and had quite a few parts of it collected, but no time to build one, so I sold it all this summer.
I'm thinking with DucSea willing to help out here, may be a new 06 model at DNA promotional discount (to promot Ducati riding and life style, blahh, blahh...) that would have a two year warranty. This bike would then be traded in for a new year old model every two year to take advantage of the warranty. This promotion would have to be worked out so that tracking the bike wouldn't void out the warranty. DNA may be willing to sell us a bike without all the street parts to keep costs down...?
DNA sold a track only bike a few years back with no lights or signals. Hopefully they have a track only version for the 1098...
kamran
12-08-2006, 12:03 PM
Although 1098 would be the coolest club bike, ever...& I do get dibs on it first!!! I don't think biginners and 1098's mix well. If our interests are "really" directed towards bigginers and newbees to track, a more realistic bike would be, as Dave stated, SS or something not high on testosterone. I don't think a 748/996 would be easy enough for a bigginer either...just my $2 (with inflation and all...:eek: )
wsuduc
12-08-2006, 12:08 PM
DNA sold a track only bike a few years back with no lights or signals. Hopefully they have a track only version for the 1098...
That was the 1000SS, which wouldn't be a bad idea for a first track bike. I know everyone wants a superbike for a track bike, but from what I am reading is the general idea to maybe get more people involved and interested in track riding. A SS (although they are getting deep six'd) would be a great all around track bike for rent. Relatively cheap and easy maintenance (compared to the track bread superbikes), plus from what I know they are fairly forgiving on the track.
Granted, this would not be sexy or glamorous but it would be a cheaper entry into a venture like this. This would allow for a history to be developed and the next bike could be of the 1098 variety if this works out to be a good deal by all:evilgrin3
It is interesting there is a large proportion of the crowd that has no interest in track riding or any events associated with the track. For some reason that caught me off guard. Nothing wrong with that, just an interesting statement.
Ooops, Karman and I submitted the same basic post at the same time
It is interesting there is a large proportion of the crowd that has no interest in track riding or any events associated with the track. For some reason that caught me off guard. Nothing wrong with that, just an interesting statement.
This is the whole reason I am bringing this up - in the hopes of getting more people interested in riding their ducs in the proper environment to see what they were designed to do.
And yes, for the purposes of gearing this towards new track addicts a Supersport is the right bike more so than the superbikes. I bet we can find a nice low mileage 800-1000cc SS inexpensively.
Benefits I see are:
*Exposure for the DNW
*Exposure for Ducati brand motorcycles
*Exposure for the local Ducati Dealerships to gain more customers
SURVEYOR
12-08-2006, 02:02 PM
THERE A 999 for sale at Bent Bike in Lynnwood.
I have the list of the repair items that was needed to put the bike back to the coditition before the crash. The bike was dumb in his drive way and hit the gaqrage door.
There asking price was $6500 the repair estimate was $14k with all the panels.
Maybe club members could donates old parts, we don't have to trick it out, just get it up and running with just the neeeded stuff.
I would be willing to spend some time working on the bike.
Jeremy
12-08-2006, 02:12 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Supersport-900-ss-cr-1996-DUCATI-900-SS-900SS-SUPERSPORT-SS-CR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ49991QQihZ016QQitemZ 260059903858QQrdZ1
:D :D
A lot of good points have been brought up in this discussion and I would like to suggest that the club look at brands other than Ducati for a track bike. There are a lot of track and race bikes out there for sale under $4000 that have been prepped for the track and that are viable options. If we are looking at getting new riders out on the track an SV650, Honda F3 or F4, or even an older GSXR-600 might be the ticket. There are more of them out there, cheaper to maintain, and cheaper to replace parts. Once the riders feel comfortable on the track, then they can bring their bikes out or even opt for getting a track bike. I love my 916 but I have a ball with my R6 on the track. Something to think about.
Tom
Jeremy
12-08-2006, 03:22 PM
I understand the point Tom...but a Ducati Owners Club with a Suzuki for a "club track bike" would be pretty hilarious! :p
foggy123
12-08-2006, 03:26 PM
A lot of good points have been brought up in this discussion and I would like to suggest that the club look at brands other than Ducati for a track bike. There are a lot of track and race bikes out there for sale under $4000 that have been prepped for the track and that are viable options. If we are looking at getting new riders out on the track an SV650, Honda F3 or F4, or even an older GSXR-600 might be the ticket. There are more of them out there, cheaper to maintain, and cheaper to replace parts. Once the riders feel comfortable on the track, then they can bring their bikes out or even opt for getting a track bike. I love my 916 but I have a ball with my R6 on the track. Something to think about.
Tom
While I understand what you are saying, a desmo club with desmo sponsors riding a non desmo sponsored bike sounds like a bad idea. Why would anyone track a duc if even the club won't?
I've got Ducmons old parts, frame, forks 40mm, skins, clipons and misc. Could be part of a package. Anybody got an engine, ecu and wire harness?
http://speedzilla.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22574&page=5&pp=10
I know more than a newbie should be out on the track with but a great example of what we can find out there.
foggy123
12-08-2006, 09:20 PM
If really want to be serious here are a couple used bikes.
http://www.ducshop.com/used_bikes.php
Or Ferracci has a 1994 916 AMA factory bike for 25k. :evilgrin3
RockStar
12-08-2006, 09:28 PM
a 748RS will guarantee 3 - 4 hours of maintenance after every track weekend to but it back into spec....not to mention cost of repairs.
I'd suggest a 620 or 800cc model. Cheap, easy to work on, will take a beating and will perform under the the widest range of riding skills. An experienced rider would make most of us on sbk's look foolish and an inexperienced rider will enjoy the not being thrown off for a minor faux pas, imho.
Dave R
12-08-2006, 10:14 PM
seeing as we are feelin' fine with this....how about Foggy's SBK rolling chassis with someone wrecked 2 valve !! here is a good page for inspiration !!
http://www.arcfabrication.com/superrat.html
foggy123
12-09-2006, 10:32 AM
I know where a 900 motor can be had for 750 plus shipping. needs a wire harness. Not too much power but combined with sbk chassis would me a nice track bike.
I know a couple guys that can modify the swingarm to make it work. :rolleyes:
Figure 1k for roller, 1k for motor, 1k for misc. 3k trackbike by spring plus some labor. Anybody interested?
BTW there would be challenges to overcome like FI tank with carbs, frame engine hassle possible so not quite as easy as it sounds.
foggy123
12-12-2006, 08:16 AM
I'm guessing by the silence that this is a dead issue. Too bad could have been fun and beneficial to all.
I'd like to say that the benefits to the club for having a cheap track bike are:
1.exposure
2.a way for those interested in track could try it
3.advertising for sponsors
4.tech help and work parties for members
5 brotherly love ;)
6.a mascot bike
I'm not sure what money the DNW has available but if there is money available then what is being done with it that is a better idea than this?
Jeremy
12-12-2006, 08:27 AM
I'm not sure it's dead...just no one posted about it recently.
I'm also not sure of the club's exact financials, but a good sum did just go to throwing the party for everyone last weekend.
I'm sure this idea will be discussed at the next board meeting...as well as next member meeting.
I agree with all the benefits listed.
How about throw that 900 engine into an M620 frame, raise the rear, add some custom rearsets, high exhaust, and fairing (ala fstrblkduc on DML)? :evilgrin3 Maybe make for a pretty light aircooled bike. :confused:
The race 620:
http://www.ducatimonster.org/featured/2006feb/featured_feb06.html
I am waiting for the next board/member meeting to officially get this idea on the ballot. There is a lot of benefit and I would really like to see this to fruition for next years riding season. The supersport engine in a superbike frame seems the most intrigueing, but maybe getting a 800-100SS may be the most easy route to making this thing happen.
foggy123
12-12-2006, 09:00 AM
I am waiting for the next board/member meeting to officially get this idea on the ballot. There is a lot of benefit and I would really like to see this to fruition for next years riding season. The supersport engine in a superbike frame seems the most intrigueing, but maybe getting a 800-100SS may be the most easy route to making this thing happen.
The next meeting is when and where?
The next meeting is when and where?
Most likely meeting will be in January or February after the holidays. I talked to Bong and Jeremy at length at the calender party about this and since my idea of a non Ducati bike doesn't seem to popular, I would have to go with Bong and Dave R. and see if we could put a supersport engine in a superbike frame. Foggy, can you and Bong put together a proposal with parts needed/parts donated and cost to present to the board? It seems like the two of you are naturals to head the project. Thanks.
Tom
I will contact Foggy and see what we can put together for the board members to disect.
On a side note, will those that haven't been to a trackday post up so we can guage the level of interest for this project. Would having access to a club trackbike get you to participate at a local trackday?
foggy123
12-12-2006, 10:09 AM
I will contact Foggy and see what we can put together for the board members to disect.
On a side note, will those that haven't been to a trackday post up so we can guage the level of interest for this project. Would having access to a club trackbike get you to participate at a local trackday?
Maybe a poll would be the way to go.
ducmons
12-12-2006, 10:55 AM
Maybe a poll would be the way to go.
A poll is a great way to guage interest, just keep in mind that if club dues are to be used for this project, the poll must be in DOC section, as only paid members have a say in what happens with club funds, and also what gets voted into business at DOC Member meetings. If you want to have a poll to guage the interest of non-paid members and if they would use the bike, become involved and comitt to the project, send me post what questions you want on the poll, and i'll have a moderator add a poll to this thread so we keep everything in one spot.
foggy123
12-12-2006, 11:19 AM
Well as a non DOC member, I would support it and would join a group who had access to a track bike.
I'm not privy to the bylaws but does the membership vote or does the board vote to accept projects? I don't seem to recall membership input when I was a DOC member and hence did not renew. Sorry for the hijack but before investing time and money in a proposal or project, I'd like to know who is calling the shots? Email off list if this is inappropriate.
Torben
12-12-2006, 11:34 AM
Rick, as JD and others have said, this will be taken up at a DOC meeting in Jan or Feb of 2007. Since the use of club funds for this type of thing must be approved by DOC members, the board will review it prior to DOC member review. The DOC membership will be permitted to review it, and then vote on it at a meeting in the near future.
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