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Tom
07-23-2007, 04:34 PM
Unfortunately the number of submissions for the calendar this year is less than we were expecting, so the board has discussed it and has decided to not put out a calendar this year. Instead we will continue to gather photos and start early on a calendar for next year. The club is financially strong right now and can afford to take a year without revenue from the calendar. Please continue to submit photos and we will keep you updated with next year's timeline. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks.

Tom Brown
DesmoNW President

martys
07-23-2007, 04:41 PM
sorry to hear this. the calendar is one of those things that sets Desmonorthwest apart from other DucClubs

ducmons
07-23-2007, 04:56 PM
sorry to hear this. the calendar is one of those things that sets Desmonorthwest apart from other DucClubs

I think it's the spirit and great friendships that set it apart, but I too will miss having a 2008 Calendar. There are some great submissions, and I encourage everyone to keep submitting. It takes substantial amount of work to get a calendar put together, and it the job can't be done half way (that is also what sets this club apart).

martys
07-23-2007, 05:22 PM
Totally agree JD. :bowdown:

I meant to say the calendar was one of those things, not the only thing. The camaraderie of this club is viral and amazing, I'm lucky to part of it and very grateful for all the behind the scenes work done by the board and its volunteers.

IZ_
07-23-2007, 06:32 PM
Wahoo..actually good news for me since I'll be up there in a couple weeks, I can then officially join the club and enter a few pics of my bike! :happy44:

Sieg
07-23-2007, 06:35 PM
Wahoo..actually good news for me since I'll be up there in a couple weeks, I can then officially join the club and enter a few pics of my bike! :happy44:There's a winner in every crowd! :happy44:

IZ_
07-23-2007, 06:55 PM
There's a winner in every crowd! :happy44:

Everything happens for a reason! ;)

Scottsst
07-23-2007, 06:57 PM
every dark cloud has a silver lineing

IZ_
07-23-2007, 07:04 PM
every dark cloud has a silver lineing


Funny that you should say that..

I happen to have a Monster Dark-Silver! ;)

Scottsst
07-23-2007, 07:08 PM
Funny that you should say that..

I happen to have a Monster Dark-Silver! ;)

well there you go !

Scottsst
07-23-2007, 07:23 PM
one thing we should do for the calendar is try to get all the monsters together for one shot!

bob wells
07-23-2007, 07:41 PM
one thing we should do for the calendar is try to get all the monsters together for one shot!
Can someone photoshop my pic into the gathering? Shipping from Honolulu is a little inconvient.:happy57:

Aloooha
Bob

Sieg
07-23-2007, 07:51 PM
Can someone photoshop my pic into the gathering? Shipping from Honolulu is a little inconvient.:happy57:

Aloooha
Bob
Maybe we come see you :happy44:

Scottsst
07-23-2007, 07:52 PM
Can someone photoshop my pic into the gathering? Shipping from Honolulu is a little inconvient.:happy57:

Aloooha
Bob

maybe if we use a system of mirrors and lenses we could get you in the picture ona clear day I guess !

bob wells
07-23-2007, 07:59 PM
Maybe we come see you :happy44:

You guys are more than welcome, except I can only put up a couple of you at a time!:happy44:

Really, if anyone is on Oahu feel free to call me and I will buy the 1st round of mai tai's.

Aloha and mahalo
Bob

Sieg
07-23-2007, 08:07 PM
You guys are more than welcome, except I can only put up a couple of you at a time!:happy44:

Really, if anyone is on Oahu feel free to call me and I will buy the 1st round of mai tai's.

Aloha and mahalo
BobWill you loan me your bike too? :happy44: Just kidding, kinda :happy57:

bob wells
07-23-2007, 08:10 PM
Will you loan me your bike too? :happy44: Just kidding, kinda :happy57:

Uhh, maybe.:cool2:

Aloha
Bob

bob wells
07-23-2007, 08:13 PM
Uhh, maybe.:cool2:

Aloha
Bob

The reason I say maybe is because when I come to the mainland maybe I could ride yours? :whistling:

Aloha and mahalo
Bob

Sieg
07-23-2007, 08:17 PM
The reason I say maybe is because when I come to the mainland maybe I could ride yours? :whistling:

Aloha and mahalo
BobThe PW50 is all yours Bob! :mock:

bob wells
07-23-2007, 08:21 PM
The PW50 is all yours Bob! :mock:

I love it!:laugh2:



Aloha
Bob

kurtfriedrich
07-23-2007, 08:26 PM
Never being good at being politically correct - can I ask this ...

It seems the calendar committee decided that of the 42 pictures submitted, there were not 12 of them good enough for the calendar.

I have no idea who buys these calendars, but I would strongly suspect that a high percentage of the folks on this list would buy one, since we would much rather have a calendar of local duc's than anything else. On the other hand, if the whole deal only works if we get a few hundred people (or more?) who are not on this list to buy it, then I could see that the standard for how good the pics have to be might be much higher.

Can you share how much it costs to produce, and how many we need to sell to make a few bucks? If we can make it at least neutral with just most of the people on this list, maybe we should go for it?

Kurt

Habanero
07-23-2007, 08:32 PM
Personally, I think the megabyte requirement for pics is too high, how many people shoot 5+ meg pics regularly? Very few.

I print photos taken at 2-3 megs that come out just fine at 8x10....

These are clubs pics, we don't need pro standards..that said, I think we can have a really nice product at lower res.

scott

bob wells
07-23-2007, 08:36 PM
Personally, I think the megabyte requirement for pics is too high, how many people shoot 5+ meg pics regularly? Very few.

I print photos taken at 2-3 megs that come out just fine at 8x10....

These are clubs pics, we don't need pro standards..that said, I think we can have a really nice product at lower res.

scott

Worth considering. Have we gotten spoiled to high quality and the artistic side? Maybe just for us is okay? Just a thought.

Aloha and mahalo
Bob

Bones
07-23-2007, 11:02 PM
how many people shoot 5+ meg pics regularly?

:whistling:

Not that I haven't taken just a few pics of you folks in the past 2 years

kurtfriedrich
07-23-2007, 11:31 PM
It's not clear megapixel's is this issue. We weren't supposed to post the full resolution pic at the web site, so they don't yet even know what size pics we actually have.
Kurt

momo
07-23-2007, 11:37 PM
I took a picture of bongs toe after he ripped the toe nail off. 5 mega pixel i think it'd make a great august/september

Habanero
07-24-2007, 07:02 AM
It's not clear megapixel's is this issue. We weren't supposed to post the full resolution pic at the web site, so they don't yet even know what size pics we actually have.
Kurt


true...but, if people know that a high res version will be necessary in the end, then people will self edit and not post at all.

I carry my camera almost all the time, and take a lot of pics, but none at 5+ megs..

I think the calendar would be very interest showing everyday, unstaged, and travel shots...people using their ducs. Actually, I would find that a lot more interesting than studio/calendar girl shots....

Good conversation..

scott

momo
07-24-2007, 07:15 AM
true...but, if people know that a high res version will be necessary in the end, then people will self edit and not post at all.

I carry my camera almost all the time, and take a lot of pics, but none at 5+ megs..

I think the calendar would be very interest showing everyday, unstaged, and travel shots...people using their ducs. Actually, I would find that a lot more interesting than studio/calendar girl shots....

Good conversation..

scott

You always want to take high quality pictures. i've found from experience, to just buy a big enough memory card. after all, you can go from HQ -> LQ, but you can't go from LQ -> HQ. So, take them all at HQ, and if you dont need it like that change it later if your favorite graphics program, like gimp ;)

Jeremy
07-24-2007, 07:49 AM
I think the calendar would be very interest showing everyday, unstaged, and travel shots...people using their ducs. Actually, I would find that a lot more interesting than studio/calendar girl shots....


scott

That's the plan. Just for next year. That way we'll have more pics to choose from (maybe we'll use more than one per month for instance), and everything won't be so rushed (collecting, editing, printing, etc).

It will also give members about 1-1/2 riding seasons to collect good shots...whereas this year everyone only had maybe 3/4 of the season by the time the plan was decided on.

It will be interesting to see how it sells. Last years calendar looked very professional and was the best selling we've ever done I believe, but many didn't like the sexy theme. We'll see how an everyday riding calendar sells. Personally, I think it'll be really cool.

As far as picture size goes...just take the biggest pic your camera can take, and submit it. We'll let you know if it's "too small". I only have a 3.2 Mega pixel camera (ya...it's old), but I'm going to try and take some pics.

Habanero
07-24-2007, 07:54 AM
You always want to take high quality pictures. i've found from experience, to just buy a big enough memory card. after all, you can go from HQ -> LQ, but you can't go from LQ -> HQ. So, take them all at HQ, and if you dont need it like that change it later if your favorite graphics program, like gimp ;)

Momo, my point is that most likely very few club members carry a camera that shoots 5+ megapixel pics...

We should encourage people to post pics of any size, then select. If they are too small, then they are too small....

Jeremy
07-24-2007, 07:56 AM
I have no idea who buys these calendars, but I would strongly suspect that a high percentage of the folks on this list would buy one, since we would much rather have a calendar of local duc's than anything else. On the other hand, if the whole deal only works if we get a few hundred people (or more?) who are not on this list to buy it, then I could see that the standard for how good the pics have to be might be much higher.

Can you share how much it costs to produce, and how many we need to sell to make a few bucks? If we can make it at least neutral with just most of the people on this list, maybe we should go for it?

Kurt

I don't know the cost specifics, but last year we printed 1,000 calendars and had some left over...which were donated to the troops if I remember correctly.

The people on this board buy a lot of them, but we need outside people to make the thing work. Sponsor fees typically cover the calendar production costs, with actual calendar sales being profit for the club. At least that's the ideal situation.

Since the sponsors pay to be in the calendar we have to be able to guarantee a very high quality product, with good distribution. Waiting a year should help us out with this...and give everyone more time to snap some pics. :)

Habanero
07-24-2007, 07:58 AM
That's the plan. Just for next year. That way we'll have more pics to choose from (maybe we'll use more than one per month for instance), and everything won't be so rushed (collecting, editing, printing, etc).

It will also give members about 1-1/2 riding seasons to collect good shots...whereas this year everyone only had maybe 3/4 of the season by the time the plan was decided on.

It will be interesting to see how it sells. Last years calendar looked very professional and was the best selling we've ever done I believe, but many didn't like the sexy theme. We'll see how an everyday riding calendar sells. Personally, I think it'll be really cool.

As far as picture size goes...just take the biggest pic your camera can take, and submit it. We'll let you know if it's "too small". I only have a 3.2 Mega pixel camera (ya...it's old), but I'm going to try and take some pics.


That's the right idea..

Personally, I thought the last calendar shots were technically great. But they weren't something I wanted on my wall, nor would I give them to someone as a gift..

I think pics of club member's bike travels, and pics of riders having fun together will make for a great product..

Tom
07-24-2007, 07:59 AM
Kurt has asked some good questions and I will try to answer them and run through the process of making the calendar.

Yes, we need more than 42 submissions to be able to pick 12 good shots. 100 or more would be great so we can have variety of bikes, scenes, etc.

5 mega pixels or greater is needed to have a large enough and clear enough photo that we can work with. Many of the photos we use will need to be cropped or reworked to make them fit and the bigger the better. It's always easier to make a photo smaller than try to make it bigger. 99% of the cameras sold today are 6 mega pixels or bigger and can be bought for less than $250.

Since this is our big money maker and takes a huge amount of time to put together, we don't want to break even, we want to make money.

Step 1. The board starts contacting potential sponsors for the calendar. We can put 2 small ads per page or 1 big one. This means having 12-15 sponsors who are willing to spend at least $250 to have their ad in the calendar. For every sponsor who says yes, we have 3 who say no. This takes a lot of time and effort to put together and the idea is to have enough sponsors to pay for the calendar before it goes to print. This means that every calendar we sell will be profit.

Step 2. Photos are chosen and sent to our graphic designer to be cropped, resized, etc. and put into layout for the calendar.

Step 3. Our current printer is in Hong Kong where the pictures are sent and the printing process starts. We send them to Hong Kong because it's cheaper than doing it stateside. This process takes a couple of weeks then the calendars are put on a container ship and make their way back to us. This can take 2-3 weeks, then they have to pass through customs before we get them. We are also looking at finding a printer here in the states that can be competitive.

Step 4. We sell the calendars locally to members and others, but also send them to retailers around the country to sell in their shops. Last year we also sold a number of them through our e-shop, but don't have that option at the moment.

I don't know what each calendar costs, JD should be able to answer that. To make a long story short, we want to put together a successful calendar without being rushed and that is why we are waiting for next year.

I hope this has answered some questions, but feel free to contact us if there is something else you need to know.

Tom

Sieg
07-24-2007, 08:06 AM
Personally, I thought the last calendar shots were technically great. But they weren't something I wanted on my wall, nor would I give them to someone as a gift..
:headscratch: I know five people that definitely appreciated the skin in 2007 :happy57:

Different strokes, depends on where the calendars are hung. I only use them in the garage, since my Blackberry, phone, and Outlook are my primary calendar source. Therefore I tend to prefer mechanical images, in the house I'd lean toward scenery shots, in the den/office maybe group activity shots.

Knowing where the majority are using the calendar would be helpful.

Bill Anderson
07-24-2007, 08:06 AM
Momo, my point is that most likely very few club members carry a camera that shoots 5+ megapixel pics...

We should encourage people to post pics of any size, then select. If they are too small, then they are too small....
Will the calendar committee please look at the 42 shots already submitted and let us know if they are too small. I submitted mine on the highest setting possible and I do not want to waste anyone's time if they are too small to be used.

kurtfriedrich
07-24-2007, 08:32 AM
Will the calendar committee please look at the 42 shots already submitted and let us know if they are too small. I submitted mine on the highest setting possible and I do not want to waste anyone's time if they are too small to be used.

I submitted lower res versions, which is what I think the instructions said, so looking at the current set might not tell you if the submitters have bigger shots available.

Habanero
07-24-2007, 08:45 AM
I guess I have found the reason to upgrade my camera...

:jumping41

bikes and cameras...I love em.

Habanero
07-24-2007, 08:47 AM
:headscratch: I know five people that definitely appreciated the skin in 2007 :happy57:



yeah, people seem to like the skin shots...I guess it's just me. The skin stuff just seems dumb and cliche to me.

Sieg
07-24-2007, 09:21 AM
yeah, people seem to like the skin shots...I guess it's just me. The skin stuff just seems dumb and cliche to me.Sometimes its fun to take a walk on the trashy side :happy57:

Try this for a camera: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/optio_w10.html

It's a great all-around performer, Quicktime video effectively captures a golf swing or track day video with decent sound quality. Exceptional battery life too.

And it functions well under water:
http://www.desmonorthwest.com/photopost/data/525/1485IMGP0463a-thumb.jpg

kurtfriedrich
07-24-2007, 09:22 AM
yeah, people seem to like the skin shots...I guess it's just me. The skin stuff just seems dumb and cliche to me.

:iagree:

martys
07-24-2007, 09:26 AM
Momo, my point is that most likely very few club members carry a camera that shoots 5+ megapixel pics...
I don't know if that's still true in this day and age. The majority of cameras sold in the last 2 years at all levels are in the 5MP range and up. The last year a 4MP camera was introduced was 2005 (see www.dpreview.com (http://www.dpreview.com)) . 5MP cameras are pretty much the entry level units today with SRP under $300 and some in $199 range. I'm talking point and shoot cameras of course. Heck, you may end up paying more for the memory card than the camera if you want a 4MB card or higher.

I would agree that most riders don't carry dSLR or dSLR-like cameras due to size, expense and vibration sensitivity from the bike. I carry my 12MP Full Frame Canon dSLR occasionally, but mostly it's the 3 year old Canon Powershot S60 (5MP) that I'll grab and often get great results 'cause I know how to use it through practice.

I'm not saying there aren't plenty of "older" digital cameras out there that still work well and take fine pictures, I have a couple that are 3MP and take great pics for viewing on a monitor or displaying on a web page. What I'm suggesting is I don't believe the 5MP requirement is a barrier given today's cameras will get you there for less then the cost of a 600 mile service visit.

If people do submit great lower resolution images, you could always collage a few of them onto a single 8x10 or 8x12 page.

Just one guy's opinion, please don't flame me :(

Habanero
07-24-2007, 09:37 AM
I have one of the first full size Canon Rebel's that I usually carry..I have been thinking about upgrading it.

I like Marty's collage idea, too..

Bill Anderson
07-24-2007, 11:35 AM
I submitted lower res versions, which is what I think the instructions said, so looking at the current set might not tell you if the submitters have bigger shots available.
I submitted exactly what I took, which was the highest setting on my camera. I would appreciate it if someone from the calendar committee with the tehcnical expertise would check my photos and see if they meet the minimum requirements.

martys
07-24-2007, 11:39 AM
I submitted exactly what I took, which was the highest setting on my camera. I would appreciate it if someone from the calendar committee with the tehcnical expertise would check my photos and see if they meet the minimum requirements.
what's your camera make/model. I can look it up.

Jeremy
07-24-2007, 11:45 AM
I submitted exactly what I took, which was the highest setting on my camera. I would appreciate it if someone from the calendar committee with the tehcnical expertise would check my photos and see if they meet the minimum requirements.

I can't answer your question, but this shot of yours is cool!

http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/60/460/3/97/33/2035397330101587907mfaZAA_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2035397330101587907mfaZAA)

Mitch
07-24-2007, 10:06 PM
:+1:

Nice pic Bill!

Bill Anderson
07-25-2007, 12:02 AM
what's your camera make/model. I can look it up.
Pentax Optio S5i.

martys
07-25-2007, 06:41 AM
Pentax Optio S5i.
The Optio S5i has a 5MP sensor (4.9MP effective) and should be just fine for the calendar. Full technical details can be found here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_optios5i.asp

The image you uploaded appears to be 2400x1800 at full size on WebShots. Assuming this is the 100% of the image from you camera, and according to WebShots calenadar FAQs this should be sufficient for their calendar products.

this is from WebShots FAQ:
How do I know if my images have adequate resolution?

For Photobooks/Minibooks: Take the image's pixel width and divide it by the width of the printed image (see Sample Calculation).
For Calendars: Take the image's pixel width and divide by 11.2 for standard size calendars, or divide by 19.2 for the large size calendars(see Sample Calculations).
For Prints: See the section above under "Questions About Photo Prints (http://www.qoop.com/about/faq.php?loc=39#topic04)."
Sample Calculations:

Photobook: 2400 (pixel width) / 7 (for 1 image per page print width) = 342 DPI (Good Resolution)
Calendar: 2400 (pixel width) / 11.2 (print width) = 214 DPI (Adequate Resolution)
Calendar: 1024 (pixel width) / 11.2 (print width) = 91 DPI (Insufficient Resolution)An optimal target number should be equal to or larger than 300 DPI. Minimal resolution that we recommend is a number larger than 200 DPI. For resolutions that are smaller than 200 DPI, we recommend choosing a layout with multiple images on a page for best results.

Bill Anderson
07-25-2007, 09:42 AM
Thanks Marty.