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View Full Version : Why is my 749 Stalling?!



darkduc
06-03-2004, 07:17 PM
I know I'm not the only one...

What can be done to prevent the 749 from periodically stalling at idle? Anyone have any ideas? Can you adjust the idle on 'em? Is that the solution?

It's really irritating to come up to a light and have the engine stall. Especially when you're riding with other japanese bikes. They tend to look down their noses at your 'trashy' Italian bike when it does such things. :mad:

Torben
06-03-2004, 08:40 PM
Yep mine does the same thing. I agree it sucks. Any ideas on cause and/or solution?

DJS
06-03-2004, 08:55 PM
Oh man I like Japanese bikes and never say anything about them. Although someone, Cindesmo, always makes fun of me for having a couple hee hee. Just kidding, it's all in good fun. Hmm not sure why your bike stalls but my '00 748S has done that once or twice. Does it happen a lot? I really don’t feel it's a huge thing so I ignore it. What I hate even more is my neutral light glowing faintly when I'm clearly not in neutral. Call you local Ducati signature store and have them look into it.

Ya and who laughs at your beautiful Ducati 749D? That's just sacrilege of the church of Ducati.

CINDESMO
06-04-2004, 06:42 AM
DJS - Your neutral light probably wouldn't glow faintly if you didn't insist on punching the guage cluster while riding the bike! I wondered what the heck you were doing!!! :)

Holeshot
06-04-2004, 06:59 AM
There is MUCH discussion on other Duc lists about this issue with the 749/999 bikes (my 998 had this issue until I bumped my idle up by turning screws the manual says I should not turn -- it's been rock-solid reliable since the 12k service btw).

OK.. to the point. They say there a lot of issues that can be causing this. The most commonly mentioned are setup issues (at the factory or the dealer). I don't have any firsthand knowlege of this.. it's all off of other lists but from what I've read this is generaly remedied by a re-sync of the TB trim pots and a CO2 adjust. Some have been fixed by re-degreeing the cams (they were out of wack from day-one).

When I have some more time I'll post some ref links. There are a couple of shops in CA that claim they can fix this problem every time.

Holeshot
06-04-2004, 07:18 AM
OK, a quick scan of what people said fixed thier stalling issues:



My buddies 749s would do the same until he had his throttle bodies sync'ed, and co2 adjusted.
Doesn't do it anymore at all




There is indeed a fix for the stalling issue on the 749S. All of the service managers were out in California yesterday, and three of them went to Ducati Marin to show them how to perform it. At this point, for the quickest remedy, you should take your bike to Ducati Marin, as they've been trained on the procedure. Thanks!




Fixing the stalling problem is simply a matter of dialing everything in right (tps, throttle angle, balance, etc) We have gotten them all to run like a million bucks with not much trouble at all.

Keep in mind these bad boys need to meet emissions.....and therefore suffer a bit. We simply set them up with a total disregard for emission and they run great




this problem is near epidimic for this model and is being discussed throughout the ducati boards. cam timing seems to be the latest in a long line of " attempted fixes"




I would have them hook it to the Mathesis and richen it up a set amount. I know my 998 (same engine) needed to be richened a bit. Same symptoms- coming to a stop, pull in the clutch, blip throttle and it died.




The rep came by the shop and it seemed that it is solved by setting the idle at 1100 rpms.




take your bike to Keith at Super Bike Specialties in Westland and have him properly synchronize your throttle bodies. This will take care of the problem. Did it on Dan's 749




I have not heard to much about this problem here in Europe so I guess it is related to USA polution regulations. I would try to close the bleed air screws a bit and then after that I would adjute the co. We have a simular problems on th ssie in europe. They are cuoffing due to lean running and cloosing the bleeds helps.




That lasted for about 1 week before I pulled plastic and trace the TB routing and linkage and found a set screw that looked like it was safe to adjust and I pushed the base idle up.

NOTE: ^^^^^ that's actually the same thing I did with mine when I first got it and had the stalling issues. Solved the problem for the next 8k miles of riding and was simple but technically totaly against what the manual suggested - I moved the screw on the front TB that at the cross-bar linkage.

I hope that helps out a bit.. but I'd go with the TPS/Sync and finaly cams before resorting to the *hack* myself and a couple of others had done.

YDMV..

Curt999
06-04-2004, 07:30 AM
There is a huge thread at www.clubdesmo.com (http://www.clubdesmo.com) on this very same issue. Interesting stuff happening. Seems almost all the 749/999 owners are experiencing the same problem. At any rate it appears from there discussions, that DNA has decided that the throttle body sinc will fix some, not all. There were several owners who claimed they were able to convince DNA to replace there bikes with R's. Not sure if it is true or not. There is some good info over there from what other dealerships have done to correct the problem though....

Good Luck

Curt
non-stalling 998 :eek:

darkduc
06-04-2004, 08:06 AM
DS techs don't seem to be up on this issue as of yet. I'll have to print off this thread and take it down to Kevin. Maybe he can try a few of these things on my bike. I'd definitely want it fixed!

We all appreciate the time it took you to compile that list of snippets Holeshot!

Torben
06-04-2004, 08:09 AM
Agreed! Thanks man :D

charon
06-05-2004, 03:17 AM
There is a huge thread at www.clubdesmo.com (http://www.clubdesmo.com) on this very same issue. Interesting stuff happening. Seems almost all the 749/999 owners are experiencing the same problem. At any rate it appears from there discussions, that DNA has decided that the throttle body sinc will fix some, not all. There were several owners who claimed they were able to convince DNA to replace there bikes with R's. Not sure if it is true or not. There is some good info over there from what other dealerships have done to correct the problem though....


here's the direct link to the thread: http://www.clubdesmo.com/discus/messages/4/8019.html?1086374838

My 03 999s is at Ducati Seattle right now for the second time running on one cylinder and stalling. This is troubling.

the bike runs great when it runs, but for a 20k+ bike I should NOT have issues like this.

charon
06-05-2004, 03:45 AM
here's another possibly useful link:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer/lemon/motorvehicles/index.shtml

darkduc
06-05-2004, 07:06 AM
There's no reason any bike, regardless of the $$ you had to spend to get it should be running like crap right off the showroom floor. Granted, my bike doesn't do it ALL the time but it's enough to annoy me. It definitely isn't running off one cylinder like yours! Crazy!? What did they diagnos your problem to be?

Oh, and my wife wants to know why you have such a 'scary' avatar? :eek:

darkduc
06-05-2004, 07:09 AM
From the page you just posted:


The Following Vehicles Are Not Covered By Lemon Law:
• Motorcycles with engine



Well, looks like that won't work for us 749 owners..

charon
06-05-2004, 10:08 AM
There's no reason any bike, regardless of the $$ you had to spend to get it should be running like crap right off the showroom floor.


Agreed.



Granted, my bike doesn't do it ALL the time but it's enough to annoy me. It definitely isn't running off one cylinder like yours! Crazy!? What did they diagnose your problem to be?


first time it was a replacement of plugs, adjustment of throttle bodies and throttle position sensor. The problem went away for about 150-200 miles and then came right back. the bike abruptly lost power and stalled as i pulled into a gas station. then it was right back to the same behavior, hard to start and felt like it was running only on one cylinder, literally only half power was available on a continuous basis and there was a nasty unburned gas smell coming from the engine. Either the bike is running on one cylinder or missing half it's firings. starting from a stop is like taking off in 3rd gear under normal circumstances. Now the issue is apparently that the coils have been replaced and all the connections in the wiring checked and it's running ok. I don't at this point have the confidence the problem is gone for good. we'll see. I just hope it doesn't die when i'm in the middle of my vegas trip in july.

from the club desmo thread this looks like a systemic issue with 749/999 bikes. there should be a systemic fix if there is a systemic issue.

Girlfriend is laughing at me, "should have got a Yamaha", she says. I'm beginning to think she may be right.



Oh, and my wife wants to know why you have such a 'scary' avatar? :eek:

Because I'm trying to keep small children away from me for their own good.

lll0228
06-05-2004, 06:42 PM
here's another possibly useful link:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer/lemon/motorvehicles/index.shtml
The 749 is not covered by the Lemon Law, it's 1 cc short of the requirement...

darkduc
06-05-2004, 08:32 PM
Doesn't that just suck! Well, I don't think I'll need to exercise that law anyway. At least I hope not! :eek:

I see now that I didn't get that quote right... I cut it short so that it didn't display the displacement..

The way I quoted it, any bike with an engine isn't covered! hee hee!

TDAdams
06-05-2004, 11:16 PM
I have an '04 749s .... stalling big time. won't hold an idle. I have to keep the throttle advanced pretty far (1500+ rpm) any time I am riding in lights or expect a stop sign. She always fires right up but it is still a little disconcerting to be sitting there exposed to moving traffic. From what I understand, the fundamental problem is associated with cam specs. I will be going in for the the 600 mile service soon so hopefully DucSea will sort it out. Too early to start pushing panic buttons as far as I am concerned.

Torben
06-06-2004, 08:21 PM
Yeah I've got my 600 coming up as well. Hopefully we can get our machines running as advertised :rolleyes:

TDAdams
06-06-2004, 08:41 PM
No Kidding. Rode about 80 miles today, just before the rain clouds let go. She stalled at every single stop sign/light. It is getting old.

darkduc
06-06-2004, 10:14 PM
Come Tuesday I'm going to stop by and see Kevin at DS after work and see what he can do. I have over 1700 miles on my bike now and it still happens so don't expect the 600 mile service alone to fix the stalling. Unless, of course, you point out the stalling issue when you bring it in for first service. Which you should. Don't let them blow you off either. I did and nothing got fixed.

Holeshot
06-07-2004, 12:02 AM
Hm.... that's not giving me warm fuzzies about local Duc service. When I had my 12k done (which cost me about $1300) I found a two loose bolts on the horizontal belt cover and the right fairing was not installed properly. I checked over most of the rest of the stuff (which I'm thinking after spending that much cash I should never have had to do) and it all seemed OK but I've not had the time to torque-check everything. I'd say you need to make sure you're *heard* when you drop the bike off for the service and exam of the stalling issue and query the mechanic carefully when you pick it up regarding the exact proceedures performed (I don't take anything out of the shop without a face-to-face with the mechanic before I leave... period).

Good luck and let us know how it all works out. I now the Teststretta motor can run with rock-solid relability. at nearly 14k on the clock it's not needed one single valve adjustment and the oil analysis I did on it shows that the motor is still breaking in. :) I'm sure it will get sorted out and all this stalling will become a faded memory (I know the stalling I had initially has).

- David

Brent
06-07-2004, 01:08 AM
Don't forget these bikes with pipes chip and open air box are tuned to go fast, and rev high. The more you tune them the more finicky they get. Although, a well performed throttle body adjustment helps the problem a lot.

Torben
06-07-2004, 10:25 AM
For me it's not simply an ego thing. It's a safety issue as well. Having a bike stall in traffic after a light goes green and you try to start off is bad for traffic flow, and the person immediately behind my not know you've stalled and drive into your back end.

Either way it's a crappy situation and I hope a tech advisory comes out from the factory soon

sim
06-07-2004, 05:19 PM
For statistics sake:

My 03/749s stalled 2 or 3 times on me during the 600 mile break in period; but I've yet to experience it again (> 3,000 miles). I reckon I've been fortunate to have a great running bike thus far; DucSea performed my 600 mile service (same day even!) and I've been very pleased with the bike.

Mark
06-15-2004, 06:09 PM
Wow. Another board, another bunch of stalling bikes.

I have an 03 999s, I'm in Tacoma.

My bike has been stalling since new and is currently in the shop at Eastside for this issue. I have had the bike for almost 1 year, it has about 1300 miles on the odo. Last season was cut short for me as far as riding(not due to this issue) and I lived with the stalling for the first 400 miles. Then the bike went into the garage and in Feb 04 I took it to Eastside for winter Mods. After much delay in receiving aftermarket parts, the bike was complete and I began to ride in May. I mentioned at every opportunity to set up the bike to cure the stalling issue and the dealer tried several different fixes. The stalling was not cured.

The bike was back in the shop beginning of June and has been their since. More adjustments made and Eastside says much improved but not cured. At this time, a PC III is being added to try to dial out the stalling condition. As a side note, the dealership encountered the dropped cylinder problem mentioned in the previous post. That was fixed with new throttle bodies.

If your bike is stalling, I suggest you e-mail Mike Norman at DNA and begin taking careful notes to document your issues.

It is a true statement that DNA has re-purchased several 749/999 models due to this problem.

mnorman@ducatiusa.com

Please keep us all posted.

Mark Cunningham

lll0228
06-15-2004, 06:18 PM
Wow. Another board, another bunch of stalling bikes.
Welcome to the board Mark! This is not just another board, this place would be the ONLY officially Ducati Sanctioned Desmo Owners Club for the Northwest Region! :) Join the DOC now, the payment system is ready to go!

Mark
06-19-2004, 10:54 PM
Dave R. has me scheduled for warranty service to look at my stalling 999S.

The other shop in the area has had 2 tries now and although they did improve the bike, it is not completely fixed.

I continue to believe that there is a solution to this problem. Many bikes run and idle just fine. My bike performs beautifully at anything above idle and will even idle on occasion.

Thanks to Ducati Seattle for the free Dyno day and to Desmo NW for food and drinks.

darkduc
06-20-2004, 09:07 AM
I spoke with Dave R. about my bike yesterday and he assures me we'll get it figured out. My bike does it very infrequently now but still enough to annoy me. Looks like the jury is still out on the exact cause/fix for this issue but many things are being talked about. Seems the approach right now is 'wait and see'. Apparently Europe is not having any problems. Sooo, one can conclude it's something to do with the emmisions crap we have on 'em here in the states. Maybe..

TDAdams
06-20-2004, 11:03 AM
I dropped off my '04 749s yesterday as well, for the 600 service and stalling problem. I rode about 90 miles yesterday before catching the last of Dyno Day. AWESOME Sounds. Dave R., Torben, and others -- thank you! (By the way, I came home and promptly "paid my dues" to join this Club. It is for real, clearly.). Anyway, my bike performed flawlessly until I made the mistake of coming through downtown Seattle on 6th Ave, then south on Westlake to DucSea. I stalled four times. I finally advanced the idle lever to hold rpms around 1800 rpm after I tired of incessantl blipping like the Squid I have zero desire to emulate. I'm sure Kevin C et. al. will get it sorted out.

Torben
06-21-2004, 12:41 PM
Yes sir it is indeed for real - thank you for signing up!

TDAdams
07-08-2004, 09:00 PM
Retrieved my 749s today from DucSea. The stalling issue appears to have been related to throttle bodies being misadjusted at the factory. In the 40 miles I managed on the way home -- urban traffic/freeway sprints/and a lap of Mercer Island -- she idled at 900 rpm and rev'd effortlessly. All is right with the world again.

Kevin, Randy, Brent at DucSea....nice work. :D

darkduc
07-08-2004, 09:07 PM
I had my bike in for wome warranty work last week and had them diagnose the stalling issue on my 749 while it was in the shop. It seems my throttle bodies are 'six bars' out of synch. So, it goes back in on the 28th to have it fixed up. Hopefully that will solve my problems too. :D

Torben
07-09-2004, 09:21 AM
I had mine on the mathsis (sp) and had the TPS "reset". Is this the same thing as what you guys had done/are going to have done?
If so, it hasn't solved my issue :o

TDAdams
07-09-2004, 10:38 AM
Not sure, Torben. Ask Randy or Brent what all they did to my bike and I'm sure they'll describe it better than I can. I do know that the cam specs were checked and adjusted using the special -and hard to come by- tooling for '04 models but this had no effect. Any way, so far so good on mine. Steady idle at 900. I'll let you know if the problem crops up again.

darkduc
07-09-2004, 10:40 AM
Torben-

No, this is different. Resetting the TPS apparently is accomplished through the computer dealie they hookup to the bike. Adjusting the throttle bodies requires pulling the airbox, etc. So, that's why mine hasn't been done yet. They didn't have time to do that and change my radiator during the appointment time alotted.

Jonny Foreigner
09-14-2004, 12:52 PM
I spoke with Dave R. about my bike yesterday and he assures me we'll get it figured out. My bike does it very infrequently now but still enough to annoy me. Looks like the jury is still out on the exact cause/fix for this issue but many things are being talked about. Seems the approach right now is 'wait and see'. Apparently Europe is not having any problems. Sooo, one can conclude it's something to do with the emmisions crap we have on 'em here in the states. Maybe..

Just to let you know the stalling problem is happening in Europe too. I'm from Leicestershire in England and took delivery of my '04 749s in June. Right from day 1 it stalled during idle. I put it down to the bike being new and the engine needing run in. I spoke to the Ducati dealer I bought it from who said it was just a 'set up' issue and they would fix it at the first service.

I had no reason to disbelieve them as they are one of, if not the best Ducati dealer in the UK - JHP Ducati Coventry, who service/set up the Ducati Monster Mob BSB racing team bikes.

After the first service the bike was not really any better - still stalling at lights, roundabouts (which can be especially dangerous) etc. I also had a problem with the instrument panel after the first service which had to be replaced! So back the to the garage with the bike.

I had a termi exhaust system fitted when it was in the garage and after a few days was told the bike had been set up and was good to go.

I picked the bike up at last weekend and suprise, suprise the bike is worse than ever (altough it does sound absolutely fantastic) - now stalling everytime I stop and won't idle for more than 30 seconds before cutting out.

Afetr speaking to the service manager yet again, he did say that the problem was down to the 'peaky cams' on the S model but did say that he thought it can fixed with the correct set up - I'm not convinced!

So it's back to the garage with the bike - I've told them to keep it until the problem is fixed. Shame really as I really love the whole 749 experience, the way it rides, looks and sounds and I can only hope the stalling issue can be fixed and it doesn't sour my love of the Ducati.

I'll keep you informed of progress over here.

Cheers.

darkduc
09-14-2004, 01:20 PM
Hey, thanks for the update from the UK side of things.

I finally got my bike sorted through the dealer. It hasn't stalled on me once since my last visit to Ducati Seattle's service department. They re-synched the throttle bodies and all is well. Of course, I don't have an s, just a 749D, with different cams.

-Jeff

TDAdams
09-14-2004, 02:25 PM
I have the 2004 749s. Stallings was a real problem but DucSea sorted it out at the 600 mile service, all under warranty of course. I have not had a single problem since then.

Dodgy
03-29-2005, 03:09 PM
Lo fellow dissappointed 749 owners. I live in Scotland (the cold wet part of the uk at the north end) And my 749 is doing the same thing cuts out all the time when stopping and refuses to idle I am getting to my breaking point and seriously thinkin bout trading it for something japanese :(. Mine is fitted with termis and filter and ecu all official ducati kit, thought at time this will sort out fueling and it will run sweet but no its still doesnt idle and cuts out when it comes to a stop. So its just as bad in UK guys.

lll0228
03-29-2005, 03:53 PM
I live in Scotland (the cold wet part of the uk at the north end).

Hey mate, which part of Scotland are you at? I went to Loretto...

Williespeed
03-30-2005, 03:06 PM
I just showed this thread to Kevin. He tells me Randy has got the fix, it is a little different for each bike. All seem to be a combination of ECU, throttle sync, and TPS. For those of you in the area schedule an appointment with Kevin for those of you in the U.K. e-mail me @ bevans@ducatiseattle.com with a description of your stalling (when it happens and under what conditions) and I will reply (as best I can) with what we did to make similar problems go away.

TDAdams
03-30-2005, 10:43 PM
I just showed this thread to Kevin. He tells me Randy has got the fix, it is a little different for each bike. All seem to be a combination of ECU, throttle sync, and TPS. For those of you in the area schedule an appointment with Kevin for those of you in the U.K. e-mail me @ bevans@ducatiseattle.com with a description of your stalling (when it happens and under what conditions) and I will reply (as best I can) with what we did to make similar problems go away.

I can vouch for that! I had a major stalling issue going on. I came in at the 600 mile service and Randy set me up. In my case, I believe it was mainly throttle sync and a low idle. She's run flawlessly ever since. It is easy to freak out when you read some of the threads out there regarding this issue but the problem proved quite simple to fix in my case.

ngng
03-31-2005, 02:10 PM
Ya and who laughs at your beautiful Ducati 749D? That's just sacrilege of the church of Ducati.

Where can I buy a 749D? :eek:

But yeah, my bike likes to stall to and people wonder if I know how to ride :D

UKDuc
03-31-2005, 02:14 PM
Problem seems to not afflict my 2005 - as I am sure you are glad to know :p At least DJS will be glad to know that :D

Williespeed
03-31-2005, 07:10 PM
Ng you know I have one here on the floor. :D

ngng
03-31-2005, 08:25 PM
Ng you know I have one here on the floor. :D

What's better than 1 duc....2 :happy57: